Forest Educator with Ricardo Sierra | A Podcast for Revolutionary Conversations about Nature-Based Education · Ricardo Sierra

Adventures in PaleoEthnobotany and Evolution with Max Gordon

·44 min·3 clips

SUNY ESF, Neil Patterson Jr., and Robin Kimmerer shaped Max Gordon's path into Indigenous studies and archaeology.

Ricardo Sierra opens by welcoming Max Gordon and naming the range of his work. Max says he runs the Lion Man School of Rewilding and that it is mostly based in New York, New Jersey, and Florida. That geography matters. He explains that living in different places changes what you notice about education, environment, and survival. He also notes that he knows more about northern survival, northern archaeology, and Indigenous cultures than about some of the tropical terrain. The mismatch is part of the lesson. Ricardo and Max keep coming back to the value of experience in more than one climate. Max points out that people who have never lived in the tropics should spend time there, and the reverse is true as well. The show stays with that idea for a while, because the point is not just travel but perspective. From there, the conversation widens into the question of what nature education is actually trying to produce. Max says he thinks about how children become adults in tribal and traditional societies. He is not chasing a slogan. He is trying to understand what skills matter, how they get learned, and how competence shows up later in life. That leads him into nature literacy. He wonders how a program could measure success by counting plants, knowing different ways to make fire, and building practical knowledge that can be recognized rather than only felt. He also questions the usual educational hierarchy. When literacy is used as the model, the discussion tends to focus on climate or geology, which he sees as important but possibly too early or too narrow. He suggests there may be other foundational skills that deserve to come first. A story about a summer camp art counselor and a playful Styrofoam-peanut idea for kids pretending to be cows brings that point into a lighter, more memorable shape. The episode ends with mutual appreciation and a warm reminder that the work is shared, patient, and rooted in helping kids spend good time outside.

As heard by us

A reflective look at nature literacy, rewilding, and how children learn skills outdoors.

Ricardo Sierra speaks with Max Gordon, a nature and wilderness educator behind the Lion Man School of Rewilding, with work rooted in New York, New Jersey, and Florida. The conversation settles on a clear question: what nature education is really for once the slogan fades.

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Why you'd press play

For a grounded listen about nature literacy, rewilding, and how kids grow through skill.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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