Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy · David Burns, MD

The Perfectionism Webinar, Part 1 of 2

August 18, 2025·1 hr 6 min·5 clips

David Burns describes how a single hostile question can trigger devastating thoughts of failure in a perfectionist.

Dr. David Burns and Dr. Jill Levitt present a recorded webinar on overcoming perfectionism using Team-CBT tools. Dr. Burns is a renowned psychiatrist and author of "Feeling Good," while Dr. Levitt is a colleague from the Feeling Good Institute. The episode begins with host Dr. Rhonda Borowski sharing a listener's touching email about her cancer diagnosis and Dr. Burns praising her dedication. The webinar focuses on the emotional consequences of perfectionism and methods to identify and change perfectionistic beliefs. Dr. Burns explains that self-defeating beliefs like perfectionism, perceived perfectionism, achievement addiction, and approval addiction are "self-esteem equations" that trigger negative emotions. A poll reveals 74% of attendees want to help themselves with perfectionism, and 93% want to help others. Dr. Levitt outlines the TEAM-CBT framework, emphasizing the "A" for assessing resistance and the "M" for methods to create change. Dr. Burns details the cognitive model where a self-defeating belief plus an upsetting event triggers distorted thoughts and intense feelings like shame. The hosts introduce the Perfectionism Cost-Benefit Analysis, an exercise where listeners list advantages and disadvantages of telling themselves "I should always try to be perfect." A participant named Rachel shares her analysis, noting advantages like motivation and feeling good, but disadvantages like lower self-esteem and poor work-life balance. She rates the disadvantages at 60 points versus 40 for advantages. The hosts discuss how to respond if a patient's analysis shows more advantages, advocating a "sitting with open hands" approach without pushing for change. Dr. Burns recounts a personal story about his own past perfectionism as a therapist, contrasting it with a colleague's wisdom. The hosts introduce other resistance-busting tools like the Magic Button and Positive Reframing. They present a case study of a therapist named Amy, who experienced severe anxiety and guilt over two stuck patients, fearing she might be responsible if they harmed themselves. Amy's Daily Mood Log showed extreme emotions, with feelings of incompetence at 100%. The hosts note the intensity of her suffering was comparable to that of hospitalized psychiatric patients. The tone is educational and conversational, blending lecture segments with interactive exercises and personal anecdotes. Listeners interested in self-help or therapeutic techniques for perfectionism would find this episode valuable, while those seeking pure entertainment or narrative storytelling might skip it.

As heard by us

A CBT look at perfectionism's tradeoffs, grounded in real costs and benefits.

Perfectionism is framed as both a strength and a burden, and Dr. Burns uses a simple cost-benefit exercise to show why the belief can be so stubborn.

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Why you'd press play

Press play if perfectionism keeps feeling productive right up until you ask what it is costing you.

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