Closing Banquet and Fireside Chat with Hon. James C. Ho and Allyson Newton Ho, and Presentation of the Annual Joseph Story Award and Feddie

·54 min·5 clips

Campbell argues the founders believed constitutional fidelity relies more on public culture than court rulings.

The episode opens with a humorous monologue about the Michigan-Ohio State football rivalry, setting a lively tone for the Federalist Society event at Michigan Stadium. The host introduces Rex Dykes, a University of Chicago Law School 3L, who presents the 2025 Joseph Story Award to Professor Judd Campbell of Stanford Law School. Dykes highlights Campbell's scholarship on the First Amendment and constitutional history, particularly his article 'Natural Rights and the First Amendment' which argues the founders viewed free expression as natural rights subject to public good restrictions. Professor Campbell accepts the award and frames his remarks around two key differences in founding-era thought: constitutionalism and the common good. He explains that the founders saw constitutional fidelity as relying more on constitutional culture and civic virtue than on judicial enforcement alone, with the common good serving as a guiding principle against tribalism. The episode then transitions to the fireside chat with Judge James C. Ho of the Fifth Circuit and his wife Allyson Newton Ho, a partner at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. Moderators J.J. Marshall and Katherine Slavinski ask about their meeting in law school, balancing career and family, and the current state of free speech in legal education. Judge Ho criticizes campus culture for lacking open debate and emphasizes the responsibility of established professionals to stand up for principles. When asked about judicial independence, Judge Ho details his resignation from the Federal Judges Association over its selective condemnation of attacks on judges, arguing consistency is essential. The conversation shifts to substantive legal topics, with Allison Ho expressing optimism about free exercise claims and identifying 'super deference' to agency expertise as the next frontier in administrative law post-Chevron. Judge Ho shares his experience as a naturalized citizen and the inspiration of presiding over naturalization ceremonies. Both offer parting advice: Judge Ho encourages being the second person to speak up in contentious discussions, while Allison Ho discusses advocating for pro bono work within law firms. The chat concludes with a personal story about surprising Allison after her first Supreme Court argument with their children.

As heard by us

A Federalist Society banquet turns from rivalry jokes and legal ceremony into a personal conversation about work, marriage, and public life.

The closing banquet works best when its formal legal ceremony loosens into room-level comedy. Michigan's November 30, 2019 loss to Ohio State becomes an easy recurring jab, while Akron, Case Western, Cincinnati, and Cleveland State get the kind of pointed recognition that makes…

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Why you'd press play

You get Michigan-Ohio State jokes, a University of Chicago Federalist Society election story, and candid reflections on career, marriage, and family life.

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