Our Beautiful, Messy, Unfolding Story - A Conversation with Lisa Olsen Tait and Scott Hales

·1 hr 22 min·5 clips

Every smile and rain detail in Saints must be verified in a source—writers cannot invent anything.

The episode features an interview with Lisa Olsen Tait and Scott Hales, two of the general editors behind the Saints history series. Host Aubrey Chavez introduces the discussion by noting the completion of Volume 4, which covers 1955 to 2020. Tait and Hales begin by explaining what sets this volume apart: it covers recent history many listeners have lived through, yet aims to present new information. They detail the challenges of covering over 60 years and a global church, requiring selective storytelling. Hales compares the series' scale to Tolstoy's War and Peace in length and character count. The historians describe the small team involved, including general editors, researchers, and writers, emphasizing a strict reference-editing process where every detail must be sourced. Tait addresses the question of oversight, stating the mandate from the beginning was to talk about hard things honestly, with review processes focusing on balance rather than censorship. The conversation turns to the church's evolving approach to history, contrasting Joseph Fielding Smith's defensive, scripture-based historiography with the modern, source-critical method exemplified by the Joseph Smith Papers and Saints. They discuss the correlation movement of the 1960s, explaining its origins in organizational consolidation and global growth needs, while acknowledging its complex impact on women's autonomy. Tait and Hales share stories from Volume 4 about race, including Darius Gray in the U.S. and members in Ghana, Nigeria, and Brazil navigating the priesthood temple ban with faith and hope. They reflect on how these historical moments of messy, unresolved struggle offer lessons for current issues like LGBTQ inclusion. The episode concludes with reflections on the power of individual stories to connect members to a larger, unfolding history of the church.

As heard by us

A candid, measured conversation about how a church learns to tell its history more openly.

Faith Matters looks at the completed Saints history series through a conversation with Lisa Olson Tate and Scott Hales on Volume 4, covering the church from 1955 to 2020. Its strongest thread is the idea of a church learning to face its own history with more candor.

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Why you'd press play

Press play for a candid tour through the Saints history project, a church becoming less North American, and the value of facing hard chapters directly.

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