EconTalk · Russ Roberts

The Mattering Instinct (with Rebecca Newberger Goldstein)

January 12, 2026·1 hr 5 min·5 clips

A former neo-Nazi found purpose in hate because it answered his desperate longing to matter.

The question is simple. Russ Roberts asks Goldstein what she means by the mattering instinct, after naming her book as the subject of the conversation. Goldstein keeps the answer direct: it is the longing to matter, and she thinks it belongs to human beings as a species. Roberts sits with that for a while. Animals seem content enough when they are not cold and not hungry, while people keep wanting something else. He knows that may put too much human feeling onto animals, but the contrast still works. Bodily comfort does not quiet the human itch. Shame comes in. Guilt too. So do imagination and the odd fact that consciousness keeps making demands after ordinary needs are met. Goldstein's phrase gives Roberts a handle on something he clearly thinks matters. Then he asks for the map. He wants listeners to hear the taxonomy she has built around the different ways people chase mattering. The idea has a long trail. Goldstein says it was already there in her first book, The Mind-Body Problem, a philosophical novel from 1983. It has been simmering for a long time. Near the end, she pushes against the idea that mattering has to be a scarce prize. There can be enough to go around, even for the beggar on the street. The point is not grabbing at status. It is noticing how urgent that longing is in each person.

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