Educational Pluralism with Dr. Ashley Rogers Berner

·32 min·3 clips

Dr. Ashley Rogers Berner's new book tackles indoctrination versus exposure in America's schools.

Dr. Tim Uhl hosts Dr. Ashley Rogers Berner, Director of the Institute for Educational Policy at Johns Hopkins, to discuss her new book 'Educational Pluralism and Democracy'. Berner returns after six years, having previously written 'No One Way to School'. She highlights that 171 out of 204 global education systems are pluralistic, meaning governments fund but do not necessarily deliver education, supporting diverse schools like Catholic, Montessori, and others. In the U.S., this contrasts with the norm of funding only local public schools. Berner advocates for educational pluralism with common content standards, distinguishing between exposure to diverse ideas and indoctrination. She critiques the U.S. focus on skills over content mastery, linking it to achievement gaps and teacher knowledge deficits. The discussion addresses accountability in school choice, with Berner emphasizing that parent choice is a means to ends like social mobility and democratic citizenship, not an end in itself. She notes that most pluralistic systems test content knowledge at key stages rather than annually. The conversation explores civics education, with Berner defining it as encompassing geography, history, and political theory to foster civil tolerance and deliberation. Examples include requiring creationist school students to learn evolutionary theory and comparative religion in European schools. Uhl and Berner discuss challenges like parental resistance to exposure, such as yoga classes, and strategies for fostering debate in divided classrooms. They examine legal limits on religious freedom, citing cases like Bob Jones University where racial discrimination was not protected. Berner mentions potential shifts in non-discrimination laws regarding LGBT students. She describes her institute's work on curriculum and school culture, offering tools for systems across sectors. The episode concludes with Berner sharing her contact information and highlighting the institute's sector-agnostic approach.

As heard by us

A measured case for educational pluralism, substantive knowledge, and responsible public funding.

Educational pluralism is framed as a democratic responsibility, tying together what schools should teach, how public funding should be used, and where exposure ends and indoctrination begins. Dr.

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You want to explore how educational pluralism can coexist with shared knowledge and accountability for publicly funded schools.

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