Business of Story · Park Howell, Brand Story Strategist

#556: From Clicks to Conversions: Fixing Your Post-Click Story, with Shamir Duverseau

February 23, 2026·59 min·5 clips

Shamir Duverceau explains how a $100k Marriott project failed due to marketing and IT speaking different languages.

This episode of Business of Story features host Park Howell interviewing Shamir Duverceau, a marketing veteran with 25 years of experience at Disney, Marriott, Southwest Airlines, and NBCUniversal. Duverceau now focuses on solving the "post-click problem," where marketing campaigns generate clicks but fail to convert visitors into customers. He argues that the post-click experience is marketing's greatest missed opportunity and that conversions are won after the click, not through advertising alone. Duverceau explains that he learned this through his corporate career, where he observed a persistent lack of alignment between marketing, IT, and product teams. He shares a specific example from his time at Marriott's vacation club division, where a project to sell timeshare preview packages online failed after hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent due to miscommunication between marketing and IT. He describes this dynamic as a "Bermuda Triangle" where departments speak different languages, leading to wasted resources and shelved projects. For smaller businesses, he recommends using integrated technology platforms like HubSpot, which combine CRM, marketing automation, and content management to create a cohesive post-click system. He illustrates this with the example of cart abandonment emails, where website activity triggers personalized follow-up communications. A central insight is that conversion is fundamentally a psychological challenge, requiring an understanding of how people make decisions online. Duverceau cites the work of Daniel Kahneman and Robert Cialdini, emphasizing levers like social proof—such as customer reviews and purchase counters—to reduce uncertainty and validate a visitor's choice. He introduces a "hierarchy of conversion" with steps like relevance, trust, orientation, and stimulation that must be addressed in order. A practical tip is to use the exact same image and headline on a landing page as in the originating ad to create a mental connection and reinforce relevance. He states that people abandon decisions quickly when they lack sufficient information or feel uncertain. The tone is conversational and educational, blending personal anecdotes from high-profile corporate roles with actionable advice for businesses of all sizes. Listeners interested in marketing psychology, conversion rate optimization, and bridging departmental gaps in organizations would find this episode valuable. Those seeking purely creative brand storytelling content without a tactical focus on metrics and technology might find it less relevant.

As heard by us

The real test comes after the click, when relevance, trust, orientation, and stimulation have to do the rest.

The episode argues that data-driven work becomes stronger when it is more people-driven. Shamir Duverceau frames that point through marketing practice and psychology, while Park Howell keeps the focus on how people decide, shop, and judge whether a site feels relevant,…

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Why you'd press play

If your clicks are good but conversions stall, this one names the gap.

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