Breaking Form: a Poetry and Culture Podcast · Aaron Smith and James Allen Hall

National Book Awards 2025

November 3, 2025·31 min
"Buckle up, girl." James Allen Hall and Aaron Smith start with the terms of entry: games, poems, queer life, art, laughter, gossip, and the warning that they are not for everyone. Awards put them in a mood. The National Book Awards become their literary season marker, a short warm-up before the January-through-Oscars fixation takes over. They know the drill. Longlist, shortlist, then the lunch-shaped decision, with all the weird theater of people acting as if prizes are clean and orderly. The guessing game feels different now. They remember when winners seemed easier to call, usually someone with a big career and a new selected. Now it feels looser, maybe a little unhinged. The hosts have heard from people who have done this that the final winner can stay undecided until lunch the day before. Naturally, they love that. It makes the award feel less like marble and more like a table of judges doing judge things. Then Tiana Clark enters. The biographical setup stays tidy: Scorched Earth, earlier books, the Agnes Lynch Starrett Poetry Prize, the Frost Place competition, a Pushcart Prize, Kate Tufts recognition, NEA fellowships, and Smith College. The poem gets bodily right away. "After the Reading" keeps circling food, soda, ranch dressing, pajamas, teeth, hair, and a sci-fi show while strangers ask enormous, invasive questions. The repetition earns its keep. Reconciliation, prayer, divorce, worthiness, anger, joy, race, touch, and audience projection all land on the poet while she is trying to eat. The hosts catch the danger in it. They hear the poem as funny and risky because poets know that post-reading crush, where praise can slide into need, confession, or trespass. The ending loosens back up. They shrug at controversy, remember a fiction year people fought over, and settle on the blunt bit: judges choose what they choose. Go judges, more or less. Then come the support-the-show details, social handles, books, and the familiar kiss-off: still not for everyone.
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