Ep 417: Tod Goldberg

·1 hr 26 min·5 clips

Mike and Tom joke about AI chatbots taking over their podcast, wondering if students will use them to write papers.

The episode begins with hosts Mike Ingram and Tom McAllister joking about AI chatbots potentially replacing them and the implications for writing education. They introduce guest Tod Goldberg, a bestselling author and creative writing professor. Goldberg discusses a student using AI to generate a story in his style, noting its limitations. The main discussion centers on Elmore Leonard's novel 'Out of Sight', which Goldberg chose for its impact on his writing. He shares a personal anecdote about meeting Leonard and getting books signed incorrectly. Goldberg analyzes a key scene from the book where dialogue reveals character and emotional subtext, highlighting Leonard's craft. The conversation shifts to Goldberg's writing career, including his experience writing novelizations for the TV show 'Burn Notice', which he describes as a crash course in commercial crime fiction. He talks about the challenges of writing a series with his 'Gangsterland' books and the research involved. The hosts and guest explore topics like genre fiction snobbery in MFA programs, the evolution of prestige TV, and the influence of authors like Stephen Graham Jones. A 'Matt Bell minute' segment allows Goldberg to share thoughts on writer Matt Bell. The episode concludes with a lightning round where Goldberg answers questions about books that made him cry, books he's pretended to read, a writer he'd like to fight, and a personal lightning story, followed by ratings of 'Out of Sight'.

As heard by us

A funny, candid conversation about teaching craft when students and chatbots keep changing the room.

Book Fight uses a conversation with Todd to test what literary judgment can mean in writing classrooms shaped by fan fiction, fantasy, and anxiety about AI chatbots.

Read the full review in PlayNext →

Why you'd press play

Want a funny route into AI anxiety, genre conventions, and the awkward work of teaching writing?

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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