Ep 8 - Dean Simone - Non-dualist Catholic Taoist Stoic

·1 hr 36 min·5 clips

Dean Simone reveals how a non-dualist view changes everything by seeing all people as one.

This episode features host Josh Gold interviewing Dean Simone, a practicing Catholic who also embraces Taoist philosophy and non-dualist thought. Simone describes himself as a "non-dualist Catholic Taoist" and explains how these frameworks coexist in his spiritual life. He is a family man with deep roots in Catholicism, including a close friendship with his parish priest, Father Kevin. Simone clarifies that Taoism, based on Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching, is a philosophy of living in harmony with the natural flow of life, which he compares to the Holy Spirit. He argues that his Taoist and non-dualist perspectives actually deepen his understanding of Christian teachings and the message of Jesus. Simone interprets Jesus as a "genius of consciousness" whose statements about being "the way" refer to a collective, transcendent consciousness. He explains non-duality using the symbol of yin and yang, emphasizing the interconnectedness of all things and the illusion of separation. Simone believes this view directly addresses modern societal divisions and partisan politics. A key insight is Simone's view of religious traditions as personal "delivery systems" for spiritual truth, where Catholicism is his chosen framework due to familiarity and comfort. He recounts how his priest friend is open-minded, even discussing figures like the Native American mystic Black Elk, who is reportedly on a path to sainthood. Simone stresses that Jesus consistently practiced inclusion, such as dining with tax collectors and prostitutes, and he criticizes judgmental exclusion as antithetical to this example. He references the biblical story of Jesus and the woman accused of adultery to illustrate the pointlessness of judgment. The conversation explores the balance between religious tenets and permissiveness, with Simone advocating for focusing on loving the person while potentially disapproving of an action. He draws a linguistic distinction from Spanish, separating permanent being ("ser") from temporary states ("estar"), to argue we should critique actions, not identities. Simone reflects on his personal growth, wishing he had prioritized gaining knowledge over being "right" in debates earlier in life. He and Josh discuss the trend of celebrities like Denzel Washington and Russell Brand publicly embracing faith, seeing it as part of a broader spiritual awakening. Simone mentions the "Telepathy Tapes" podcast and non-speaking communicators as evidence of evolving paradigms about consciousness. He recommends the book "The Universal Christ" by Richard Rohr, a Catholic priest known for broad-minded theology. The episode concludes with Simone posing a question to Josh: why did Jesus have to be crucified, noting he has never found a completely satisfying answer from theologians or priests. The tone is a thoughtful, exploratory dialogue between two knowledgeable and passionate individuals seeking common ground. The style is conversational and philosophical, weaving personal anecdotes with theological and ideological concepts. Listeners interested in interfaith dialogue, comparative religion, or mystical interpretations of Christianity would find this episode compelling. Those seeking strict doctrinal debates or dogmatic religious perspectives might prefer to skip it.

As heard by us

A generous faith conversation that treats difference as part of a shared whole.

The conversation treats faith through a non-dual lens, using yin and yang to argue that there is no real split between us and them. That idea gives the discussion its shape as it moves from Catholic practice to Taoist harmony and lands on a shared spiritual whole.

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Why you'd press play

You want Catholicism and Taoism put in the same room without a fight.

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