Attaching to God: Neuroscience-informed Spiritual Formation · Geoff and Cyd Holsclaw

121 Evolving Narcissism, Attacks on Empathy, and Raising Up Resilient Churches (with Dr. Chuck DeGroat)

·43 min·10 clips

Jeff opens by welcoming new listeners and reminding them that the podcast is about attachment-based, relationship-focused, Jesus-centered spiritual formation, with brain science tied to Bible study. The conversation then turns to a blunt question: is society producing more narcissists, or more people who are vulnerable to narcissistic abuse? Chuck DeGroat joins Jeff to take that apart from a church and cultural angle. They ask what has changed in the internet and social media age. DeGroat says older narcissism often worked behind the scenes through ladder climbing, power grabbing, and institution building. He contrasts that with a newer kind of performative narcissism. In a social media world, people get rewarded for looking vulnerable. He calls that faux vulnerability when leaders or influencers share personal struggle in order to seem humble while still controlling the story. The discussion widens beyond church life. DeGroat notes that wellness experts and even therapists can build a public following on a small shtick. The point is not that every visible teacher is hollow. The point is that visibility can create a false sense of depth before character has been tested. Jeff presses on how this shows up in actual church settings. DeGroat points to abuse cases where a pastor can say all the right things. He mentions therapy language, the Enneagram, and shadow work as tools that can be used honestly or performatively. The problem is not the vocabulary itself; it is the gap between polished language and lived reality. The conversation keeps coming back to discernment. It asks listeners to look past presentation and ask what is actually happening in a leader's life. The close settles on a simple conviction: relationships have to stay honest, truthful, and humble. Jeff thanks DeGroat, and the two end on a warm, ordinary note that fits the show's broader attachment and formation frame.

As heard by us

A close look at performative narcissism, faux vulnerability, and the language of humility in church culture.

The episode is strongest when Dr. Chuck DeGroat and Jeff Holzclaw move from asking whether there are more narcissists to showing how narcissism can become performative and church-facing in the internet age.

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Why you'd press play

You want a grounded read on performative narcissism in church, not a hot take.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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