Molly Worthen Refines the Definition of “Charisma”

·1 hr·5 clips

A secular historian of Christianity describes how a Southern Baptist pastor evangelized her, leading to her baptism four years ago.

Dan Churchwell interviews Dr. Molly Worthen, a history professor at UNC Chapel Hill, about her book 'Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump.' Worthen begins by explaining her academic interest in religion, stemming from a fascination with human experiences and a formative summer with Russian Orthodox Old Believers in Alberta. She discusses her PhD work at Yale on 20th-century evangelical intellectual history, which became her first book 'Apostles of Reason,' focusing on the disproportionate influence of Reformed theology. Worthen then reveals her personal conversion to Christianity less than four years ago, prompted by an interview with Southern Baptist pastor J.D. Grear, who directed her to investigate the resurrection claims using historical methods. She describes how this conversion changed her approach to teaching and research, allowing her to engage with historical subjects as fellow believers. The conversation shifts to 'Spellbound,' where Worthen defines charisma as a polarizing storytelling ability that gives followers a role in a narrative making sense of chaos, contrasting it with mere charm. She illustrates this with examples like Joseph Smith and early British Mormon converts who were drawn by the story without meeting him. Worthen traces charisma's roots to the Protestant Reformation's emphasis on individual relationship with God, which flourished in America's religious free market. She discusses Max Weber's ambivalent view of charisma as necessary disruptors in modern bureaucratization. The interview covers how charismatic movements persist, such as the institutionalization of Mormonism under Brigham Young or the narrative legacy of Marcus Garvey influencing Malcolm X. Worthen also touches on modern applications, like how 1980s management consultants like Tom Peters used charismatic storytelling in business. She reflects on current low institutional trust empowering charismatic leaders and concludes with her future project ideas, including a history of the quest for eternal life.

As heard by us

A historically grounded conversation about charisma, Worthen's scholarship, and the religious questions behind her intellectual path.

Molly Worthen brings a historian's eye to this ActinLine conversation on charisma and leadership. In conversation with Dan Churchwell, Actin's director of programs and education, she draws on her work as a professor of history at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill,…

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You want to know why charisma keeps shaping American leadership, from the Puritans to Donald Trump.

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